Interviews & Profiles

Liz Krueger, the reformer

The longtime state senator talks JCOPE reform and fixing the New York City Board of Elections.

NYS Senator Liz Krueger

NYS Senator Liz Krueger NYS Senate Media Services

The push to reform New York’s Joint Commission on Public Ethics has long suffered from a lack of forward momentum. Despite lawmakers and good government groups complaining about JCOPE and the state’s public ethics system, little progress has been made in instituting substantive changes to the body’s makeup and function. 

A bill from state Sen. Alessandra Biaggi passed the state Senate this past session which would have changed how commissioners are appointed, and also would’ve updated voting requirements for findings of violations. But the bill was never picked up in the Assembly. Biaggi, who chairs the ethics committee, will hold the first of two hearings on ethics oversight and enforcement on Monday, where JCOPE’s shortcomings and potential for reform will be discussed.

It’s a similar story for the New York City Board of Elections. A long history of gaffes and reports of disenfranchisement has yet to lead to major changes in the board.

State Sen. Liz Krueger, a Democrat in Manhattan, is hoping that those stories start to change next session. Krueger has proposed a constitutional amendment that would do away with JCOPE and build a new body – called a Government Integrity Commission – which, among other things, would give more appointment power to the judiciary and take some away from the governor. But enshrining these reforms in the state constitution comes at a cost: It takes much longer to pass a constitutional amendment than it does to pass typical legislation. Krueger is also sponsoring a bill that aims to professionalize the New York City Board of Elections, and institute new qualification requirements for commissioners and staff. 

City & State checked in with Krueger ahead of that hearing about why reform efforts have stalled, what action we might see next session and whether the city BOE’s latest screw-up will help propel reforms.

Responses have been edited for length and clarity.

Why wasn’t your proposal to create a new “Government Integrity Commission” able to move forward this past session?

It’s always very difficult to get anybody to be willing to move constitutional amendments, because it's quite the process to accomplish. You need to pass it through both houses of the Legislature, two sessions in a row. Then you bring it, the following general election, to the public for a referendum vote. So it's not a simple thing to change your constitution. And it's not a simple thing to say to the Legislature – even though I'm part of the Legislature – “Hey, we have an ethics problem that needs to be better addressed.” Because you're basically saying, I want to make the policing of ourselves stronger. And no one really wants to hear that we need it. Nobody really wants to have to do it. It's the kind of thing legislative bodies do when there's enough public pressure on them that they feel they can't avoid it anymore. It’s actually the story of my life on lots of the bills that I carry.

What other bills?

I’m carrying a bill to reform the (New York City) Board of Elections, and there too, people are going, “Why didn’t that just pass?” Well, because party leaders control the Board of Elections. They don’t want to change it. It’s working for them somehow. It's very hard to get folks who the system has worked for to be willing to admit that there are problems in that system, that it needs to be fixed. 

A bill from state Sen. Alessandra Biaggi that you co-sponsored passed the state Senate this past session. Is the idea to have these kinds of statutory reforms serve as stopgap measures to improve JCOPE while you pursue this longer process of advancing a constitutional amendment? 

Yes, I think that's a fair statement. And they have value in their own right. It's just, I think that there are enough problems with the entire model of JCOPE that we are better off designing from scratch. That's not a criticism of any of those individual bills. Because the truth is, as hard as it is to pass them, even as individual bills, they each would make a difference in some way, compared to the current model.

What was your reaction to the news that JCOPE wouldn’t pursue a criminal probe into the reported internal leak of information to Gov. Andrew Cuomo in 2019? 

No surprise, whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I didn't coin the original phrase, “JJOKE,” but that’s basically my opinion of that entity, even though there are decent people involved. I think what would surprise me is to learn that there was an example somewhere of JCOPE having handled something correctly from beginning to end. 

Have you seen interest or support for the constitutional amendment proposal grow as Gov. Andrew Cuomo has come under increased scrutiny this year? Are there new realizations about the need for ethics reform?

I think there are new realizations about ethics reform, but it hasn't necessarily tied back into JCOPE. Because while obviously the story you're picking up on is where there does appear to have been a leak of information about a decision not to follow up on a case, the kinds of ethics issues that are now plaguing the governor are not really JCOPE. They’re criminal charges. There are four different investigations going on into the governor’s behaviors. I think focus, and certainly media focus, has been on those, not necessarily on where was JCOPE.

What’s next for your JCOPE reform proposal? Will you be reintroducing it as-is next session, or do you expect it will go through any changes first?

Well, I'm interested in seeing if there are any new recommendations that come out of these hearings. I'm always willing to adjust legislation or constitutional amendments to make them better. So I'm not going to ever say, “No, nothing would be amended,” because if there are good reasons to do it, let's do it.

I want to ask about the proposal to reform the New York City Board of Elections. Is the idea behind it similar to the JCOPE proposal – starting a new system from scratch?

Well we can't start from scratch because there's actually requirements in our constitution. So we can't get rid of the dual bipartisan model of administration. Oddly enough, that's actually in the constitution. But we can professionalize it. So right now, you have the county party leaders who appoint the commissioners who set the policies and hiring and firing within the board. All right, I still have to have party leaders who appoint commissioners, that requires a change in the constitution. Fine, we won’t be able to do that in a year. But, you can change it so you need co-executive directors, one who's a (Democrat) and one who's a (Republican), but they actually are people who apply for the jobs, and are evaluated by people elected to higher positions in New York City. They go in there, they hire people based on professional qualifications. And if they fail to do their jobs, they get fired. But there's mandatory training to professionalize the staff and to make sure everybody knows what their job is. You still have these 10 commissioners because I can't get rid of them. But they are advisory on specific issues, and not (on) the hiring and firing and managers of the staff. Making it more of a professional agency accountable to someone, the way people assume all their government agencies are.

Reforming the BOE is another effort that’s been talked about, but not acted upon, for a long time. Do you have any notion that the board’s most recent ballot-counting screw-up will stick in people's minds by the start of the new session next year, and maybe give reforms a better chance of passing?

I really hope so. I keep saying to reporters, it's not just this election cycle, at least in New York City. It's every election cycle, as far back as your memory allows you to go, that something major has gone wrong that was a human mistake, because of lack of correct credentials, management and competence of the people of the board of election. And every election cycle, there's newspaper stories and editorials saying, “Enough is enough.” And yet, then we don't fix anything. So I'm hoping that people's memory is long enough to demand that we do the right thing. Also, I've been spending a lot of time on the following sentence: “Ranked-choice voting, a new model for voting which started this year in New York City, right now in this election, was not the problem of any of the issues we saw. It worked exactly as intended.” 

X
This website uses cookies to enhance user experience and to analyze performance and traffic on our website. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. Learn More / Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Accept Cookies
X
Cookie Preferences Cookie List

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

When you visit our website, we store cookies on your browser to collect information. The information collected might relate to you, your preferences or your device, and is mostly used to make the site work as you expect it to and to provide a more personalized web experience. However, you can choose not to allow certain types of cookies, which may impact your experience of the site and the services we are able to offer. Click on the different category headings to find out more and change our default settings according to your preference. You cannot opt-out of our First Party Strictly Necessary Cookies as they are deployed in order to ensure the proper functioning of our website (such as prompting the cookie banner and remembering your settings, to log into your account, to redirect you when you log out, etc.). For more information about the First and Third Party Cookies used please follow this link.

Allow All Cookies

Manage Consent Preferences

Strictly Necessary Cookies - Always Active

We do not allow you to opt-out of our certain cookies, as they are necessary to ensure the proper functioning of our website (such as prompting our cookie banner and remembering your privacy choices) and/or to monitor site performance. These cookies are not used in a way that constitutes a “sale” of your data under the CCPA. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not work as intended if you do so. You can usually find these settings in the Options or Preferences menu of your browser. Visit www.allaboutcookies.org to learn more.

Sale of Personal Data, Targeting & Social Media Cookies

Under the California Consumer Privacy Act, you have the right to opt-out of the sale of your personal information to third parties. These cookies collect information for analytics and to personalize your experience with targeted ads. You may exercise your right to opt out of the sale of personal information by using this toggle switch. If you opt out we will not be able to offer you personalised ads and will not hand over your personal information to any third parties. Additionally, you may contact our legal department for further clarification about your rights as a California consumer by using this Exercise My Rights link

If you have enabled privacy controls on your browser (such as a plugin), we have to take that as a valid request to opt-out. Therefore we would not be able to track your activity through the web. This may affect our ability to personalize ads according to your preferences.

Targeting cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.

Social media cookies are set by a range of social media services that we have added to the site to enable you to share our content with your friends and networks. They are capable of tracking your browser across other sites and building up a profile of your interests. This may impact the content and messages you see on other websites you visit. If you do not allow these cookies you may not be able to use or see these sharing tools.

If you want to opt out of all of our lead reports and lists, please submit a privacy request at our Do Not Sell page.

Save Settings
Cookie Preferences Cookie List

Cookie List

A cookie is a small piece of data (text file) that a website – when visited by a user – asks your browser to store on your device in order to remember information about you, such as your language preference or login information. Those cookies are set by us and called first-party cookies. We also use third-party cookies – which are cookies from a domain different than the domain of the website you are visiting – for our advertising and marketing efforts. More specifically, we use cookies and other tracking technologies for the following purposes:

Strictly Necessary Cookies

We do not allow you to opt-out of our certain cookies, as they are necessary to ensure the proper functioning of our website (such as prompting our cookie banner and remembering your privacy choices) and/or to monitor site performance. These cookies are not used in a way that constitutes a “sale” of your data under the CCPA. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not work as intended if you do so. You can usually find these settings in the Options or Preferences menu of your browser. Visit www.allaboutcookies.org to learn more.

Functional Cookies

We do not allow you to opt-out of our certain cookies, as they are necessary to ensure the proper functioning of our website (such as prompting our cookie banner and remembering your privacy choices) and/or to monitor site performance. These cookies are not used in a way that constitutes a “sale” of your data under the CCPA. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not work as intended if you do so. You can usually find these settings in the Options or Preferences menu of your browser. Visit www.allaboutcookies.org to learn more.

Performance Cookies

We do not allow you to opt-out of our certain cookies, as they are necessary to ensure the proper functioning of our website (such as prompting our cookie banner and remembering your privacy choices) and/or to monitor site performance. These cookies are not used in a way that constitutes a “sale” of your data under the CCPA. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not work as intended if you do so. You can usually find these settings in the Options or Preferences menu of your browser. Visit www.allaboutcookies.org to learn more.

Sale of Personal Data

We also use cookies to personalize your experience on our websites, including by determining the most relevant content and advertisements to show you, and to monitor site traffic and performance, so that we may improve our websites and your experience. You may opt out of our use of such cookies (and the associated “sale” of your Personal Information) by using this toggle switch. You will still see some advertising, regardless of your selection. Because we do not track you across different devices, browsers and GEMG properties, your selection will take effect only on this browser, this device and this website.

Social Media Cookies

We also use cookies to personalize your experience on our websites, including by determining the most relevant content and advertisements to show you, and to monitor site traffic and performance, so that we may improve our websites and your experience. You may opt out of our use of such cookies (and the associated “sale” of your Personal Information) by using this toggle switch. You will still see some advertising, regardless of your selection. Because we do not track you across different devices, browsers and GEMG properties, your selection will take effect only on this browser, this device and this website.

Targeting Cookies

We also use cookies to personalize your experience on our websites, including by determining the most relevant content and advertisements to show you, and to monitor site traffic and performance, so that we may improve our websites and your experience. You may opt out of our use of such cookies (and the associated “sale” of your Personal Information) by using this toggle switch. You will still see some advertising, regardless of your selection. Because we do not track you across different devices, browsers and GEMG properties, your selection will take effect only on this browser, this device and this website.