Zohran Mamdani isn’t ready to talk about the future

Zohran Mamdani is one of New York’s 20 most influential politicians of the past 20 years. See the full list.

New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani is a unique member of City & State’s list of the 20 most influential New York politicians of the past 20 years. Sure he’s the youngest, a democratic socialist, etc. But he’s also, strikingly, been influential for the shortest amount of time in those 20 years. The most liberal estimate would put that number at six years, marking his election to the Assembly in 2020. The more conservative evaluation would put that at just two years, when he kick-started his history-making mayoral campaign.

When City & State pointed this out to him during an interview and photoshoot in late August, he merely chuckled.

In light of that, we asked about Mamdani’s vision for the next 20 years – not just on the priority issues he’s hammered in his first year, like early childhood education, freezing the rent and consumer protections – but the ones he hasn’t spoken about as frequently.

We dove into some of those areas – education after early childhood, reforms to the New York City Police Department, an urgent need for new housing – as well as Mamdani’s plans for his own future. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

You’re on our list of the 20 most influential New Yorkers of the past 20 years. And with respect, you are probably the person who has been the least influential over those 20 years. You’re only very recently influential. So, I want to go back 20 years to 2006. You’re 14 years old, about to start at the Bronx High School of Science. What is getting you excited or worried about the city at that time in your life?

Wow. I am probably thinking a lot about trying to make the soccer team. Big hopes and dreams.

Did you?

Yes, yes I did, not that I played much in that first year. I think it was also a moment in which my sense of the city really expanded. I went to middle school four blocks away from where I lived, and I would walk to school or I would use my Razor scooter, and now this was a moment where I was about to take the 1 train to the Bx10. And with the soccer team and then the cricket team, it would also mean going across the Bronx and across the city. I didn’t fully know it, but even from when I went to the admitted students day in eighth grade at Bronx Science, just that one day gave me a sense of how much bigger that world was.

Speaking of Bronx Science, a lot of your focus has been on early childhood education but you said in July that something has to be done about the racial inequalities in specialized high school admissions. And you also talked on the campaign about wanting to phase out the gifted and talented program entry for kindergarten. Say you have kids of your own at one point down the line, how do you want the gifted and talented program to work differently for them? How do you want specialized high schools to work differently for them?

I would want them to experience the best possible school system. And I say that because it’s important to be explicit about the fact that our goal should not simply be relative, it should be absolute. It should not simply be a system that is better than it is today. It should be a great system. And if and hopefully when I have children, they will go through much of this – not just the question that you’re posing to me of whether someone should take a test in kindergarten or what happens to them in ninth grade, but also the years in between. And to me, what I would want is, in many ways, the way in which our chancellor describes his vision, which is a public school system that is safe, integrated and rigorous, and that to be the characteristic of whatever school that they go to.

Reforming the SHSAT – does that need to happen to see that vision through in your mind?

I’ve said that my focus is on what precedes that here in New York City. I don’t believe that the test itself needs to change.

The changes you talked about to the gifted and talented program didn’t happen this school year. Is that on the agenda in the 2027-2028 school year?

What I had said is that I don’t believe that children should be taking tests at that age in order to place – and very much specific to that age – and that is still something that I believe.

For next year?

We’ll have those conversations with the chancellor.

How would you want your potential future kids interacting with artificial intelligence in the classroom, if at all?

I would want them to engage with AI in a manner that does not replace teacher interaction. And I also think that the older they get, the more – I think that age has a lot to do with the level of engagement with AI. So I do think that there’s something fundamentally different about a child in third grade than a child in ninth grade. And to me, throughout all of it, I want to make sure that teacher interaction continues as it is, and that as students get older, they also graduate from our public school system with not only a knowledge of AI, but an understanding of how to use it and a fluency, because it is becoming a greater part of so much of how people engage with the world.

Looking again to the future, how do you want the New York City Police Department to operate differently or look different at the end of your term, or terms?

I think one key way that it would look different is through the separation of response to protests, versus threats and counterterrorism work. And we’ve seen that over recent years, the two things have been combined in the Strategic Response Group. Even though it was originally created with counterterrorism in mind, it has since become something that is also one of the primary methods of responding to protests. One thing that I hope for by the end of my time as mayor – and one thing that I will deliver, as opposed to simply hope for – is the separation of those responsibilities.

What steps are you taking in that direction?

That continues to be the part of the conversation we’re having, of how to do so in a manner that also ensures we’re keeping New Yorkers safe. And it’s indicative to me of a larger commitment we have, where we want to deliver both safety and justice, and not have New Yorkers be forced to choose between the two.

Does that future version of the NYPD have a gang database? Does it have more officers? Are they making more money?

I’ve said time and again that I believe the number of officers that we have authorized for is the right number, and I’m incredibly proud of all of the work that is being done on both a day-to-day basis, but also over the course of my time as being mayor, which has been a critical part of delivering the public safety that we see across our city.

Does it have a gang database?

I’ve shared thoughts on that.

You have differences of opinion, obviously, with Police Department Commissioner Jessica Tisch about policing tactics. You’ve faced some criticisms or pressure from the left over the choice to keep her in that role. Is that something you listen to? How do you respond to it when you hear it in closed-door situations?

There’s a lot of noise in the work that we do – in your work, in my work – and I think, especially in today’s age, where you can find no shortage of opinions, you have to be able to tune out what is noise and what is criticism that has to be engaged with. You can never have it such that you only surround yourself with constant loops of validation and agreement. You have to actually reckon with – sometimes it’s good faith, sometimes it’s bad faith – whatever it is, you have to use it as a way to push yourself and to ask yourself how you can better deliver. And I continue to believe that we have the police commissioner who can help to deliver exactly what our agenda is.

New York City needs 700,000 new homes in the next 10 years, according to a draft report by your administration. That seems like a really insurmountable number when you look at what’s been produced in the past 15 years, as that report notes. Do you plan to be personally involved in pressuring local council members and community boards to be a part of that goal?

I plan to be very public in my support for the urgent need to build more housing across New York City. And I’ve spoken about our commitment to build 200,000 affordable homes across the city over the next decade. That is in terms of what the city will be subsidizing. We are also talking about a larger number of what needs to be created overall, especially when considering what the market can create. And oftentimes that supply has been constrained by zoning decisions and policy decisions that we’ve been making, frankly, since 1961. And I am very clear, both within our administration and also speaking to New Yorkers at large, that we need to look at anything that has delayed the construction of housing at the scale that it needs to be, and if needed, change some of those policies and regulations. You know, I was proud to support (Gov. Kathy Hochul’s) successful effort to change our (State Environmental Quality Review Act) laws, because those had a significant impact in the time it was taking to construct housing.

I think there’s no shortage of examples of things that we can keep doing, and it’s why the first day of being in office was characterized by signing executive orders for the SPEED Task Force and the LIFT Task Force – and it wasn’t just because I’m a fan of the Keanu Reeves movie. It’s also because these are the kinds of task forces that will expedite the processes of building housing and also illuminate the possibilities of public housing that can be built on publicly owned land.

But the local opposition, which we see come into play sometimes when it comes to how ambitious a project might be, or if a project actually actually happens – you can marshal political attention, you’ve demonstrated very, very well. Do you intend to marshal political will and attention toward those low-growth districts?

My belief in the importance of building more housing is sincere, and it will be sustained. And I will make it clear, it will not be a secret that I have.

Do you expect City Council Speaker Julie Menin to be a part of putting that onus and pressure on local elected officials?

What I can tell you is that I’ve appreciated the fact that both the speaker and I share a commitment to building more housing. We’ve had conversations in the past about interest in building housing in and around libraries, and on top of libraries. That, I think, speaks to a commitment to a creative set of ways to address the housing crisis, because it will not just be one silver bullet. It will require an all-of-the-above approach, and I look forward to continuing working with her on doing that.

You and Gov. Kathy Hochul obviously worked together to pass the pied-à-terre tax this past state legislative session. Do you expect that she will be more receptive to a raise on income and corporate taxes next session, when she’s not facing a reelection fight?

I can tell you that right now my focus is just on the next week, the next month, looking at what we have right in front of us. What I can say is whatever the calendar is that I’m looking at, I’ve been able to look at our governor as a partner in the work of ensuring the city is on firm financial footing and that we’re delivering the highest quality of service when it comes to what public goods look like, but also our ability to meet New Yorkers’ needs.

I’ll take a shot at a 2028 question, despite what you’ve just said.

Go for it.

Some Democratic Socialists of America members just launched an AOC for president campaign. Do you think she should run?

I think that it is her decision to make, and I think that she would make a good anything.

Senator?

Whatever her decision is, I think that she would succeed at it.

Past mayors, including Bill de Blasio and Eric Adams, at one point or another developed a sort of bitterness toward the media and the press. We haven’t really seen you lash out in that same way, yet. Is there a moment when you’ve come close?

(Laughs.) No, I’ve heard that we may be playing soccer sometime soon.

But seriously – just recently, the coverage of that 9/11 petition. Did that bring you to any kind of frustration?

I understand that we all have roles to play and that sometimes it makes for an easy conversation, sometimes it makes for a hard one. There are days that are difficult, and I also don’t begrudge the press for them, because I think that if my takeaway is to complain about the refs, then it means that we lost the game. And I think that the focus should be on the work at hand. And preparing for the “Inner Circle (Show).”

After DSA’s near-sweep in the June’s primaries, it seemed like there was a palpable fear among some liberal or establishment politicians – that DSA is coming to a neighborhood near you next cycle. I’m curious if you did any outreach after that cycle to some of those people who you invited into the big tent last summer to sort of mend any broken fences. To weatherize that big tent, to use a strained metaphor.

Did I insulate the tent?

Yeah, did you insulate the tent?

I am always in conversation with partners across city, state and federal government. And that’s a conversation that continues no matter where we fall on primary races. It continues because to me the most important thing is delivering for New Yorkers, and we’re talking about a number of leaders who play critical roles in doing that. And I’m less interested in formulating an ever-narrowing definition of who to work with, and more in trying to expand who we can sit across the table from, so that we can work together to deliver for the people who we all serve.

Were there any uncomfortable conversations after June?

I think that there are tough parts of this job, and it is all part and parcel of what it means to do it.

You just said that you focus on the next week, the next month. If you could indulge looking forward 20 years, where do you see yourself?

In New York City.

Would you rule out running for governor in the future, after your time in City Hall?

I will tell you whatever I’m doing, it’s going to be loving this city and finding a way to have that be a part of my job.

What is one agency or area of government that you haven’t focused on as much as you’d like to in these past eight months, and that you plan to do so more in the future?

I’d say one office that I’m engaging with more is the Office of Animal Welfare.

How so?

Partially through the funding that we provided in the recently adopted budget. And also I’m now learning more and more about what it could look like to be a pet owner myself.

The cat?

Potentially, cats.

Multiple cats, OK. You knocked wood earlier when I asked about your future, maybe having kids. Is that something that’s in the near term? Medium term?

It’s in the future. I’m not sure when. But I would like to be a parent.